Infinia vs Magnus vs Atlas

[raviemailid]

BACKGROUND STORY:

I had no credit card till June 2021 because of bad credit. I had defaulted on a couple of credit cards about a decade ago and had decided to stick to debit cards and real money for my needs. All of this was going good - I was paying full money for amazon, Flipkart shopping, full money for Zomato, Swiggy, Uber and for anything that you can think of. Life was simple.

But I always wished if I had a credit card - especially the Amazon ICICI credit card - I was a moderate user of Amazon and having the luxury of 5% cash back on everything was nothing short of a dream for me. This thought pushed me to apply for it and it got rejected, obviously. I approached the bank - visited the branch nearby, something that I hadn't done for 5 years. ICICI bank was good and friendly - helped me close my old credit card and issued me a credit card against an FD. Well, they also took 2L cheque for opening some premium account. I didn't need all that but the excitement of getting a CC was worth that stupid 2L FD (that FD is still running with them) and I was issued a Coral credit card. I was happy. 6 months later, after many applications and requests, I was issued an Amazon ICICI Pay credit card and then, after some time, I got Flipkart Axis.

I was on cloud 9 - all my credit card dreams were fulfilled, I was saving 5% flat from FK and Amazon plus some sundry 4% cashback from other apps and a flat 1.5% cashback on all the spends for FK Axis. I moved all my expenses to CC and migrated to cred for bill payments. I also got my hands on Zomato RBL card (which became shoprite card), IndusInd Legend and SBI BPCL card. All of this was good for some 10 months. Then in one of my persuasive conversations with my HDFC RM, the bank I have the longest and heaviest relationship with, but also the one refusing to issue me a credit card, sprang a surprise. Guess I had bothered her to death saying how can you not give me a credit card when I am your classic customer and ICICI and Axis can. RM, utterly fed-up with me, apologized again and threw a last straw towards me - "sir, are you from IIT/IIM or any premier institute?" I was like, "What do you mean, I am from IIM."

I was issued Diners Club Black - which introduced me to 3.3% cashback and the luxuries of credit cards. I was elated and boasted about it to my wife. Hell, I got her an add-on card for lounge visits. Life was all good for another 10 months.

Then in June - I was introduced to GYFTR - those reward multipliers of 2x, and 3x were insane. I was like - why on earth I am not using these? Then in GYFTR, I saw Infinia listed with better reward points. I went to the HDFC portal and saw that I couldn't apply for it - it was an invitation only. This led me to do more research then I came across sites like TechnoFino, Cardinsider etc and I was totally blown away. I felt how novice of me to be happy with DCB when Magnus was killing it. I tried for Magnus in July and I was issued one. But then, I got the update of devaluation and in a panic state, I cancelled the card when it was issued. The card was still delivered to me though but it is cancelled now.

Now - I was greedy, I wanted Infinia! Spoke to RM, and being the amazing lady she is, she said I can get the paid one - and I have the paid one with me now, using it for the last 1 week. But I have understood that 3.3% is all I have except SmartBuy and GYFTR. So I have been looking for ways to find the ideal card combination for me. Hence the research.

WHY COMPARING THESE?

I have 4 main categories of expenses. The expenses that can be covered with GYFTR, second the direct hotel and flights, 3rd normal hotel and flights and 4 other expenses like insurance, fees (can't use Apay) etc. I feel stupid to have cancelled the Magnus, but I guess that may have been a blessing in disguise. Had it stayed with me, I would have tried for Burgundy status and that is not something I'd like to do with Axis bank.

Below table runs a sample point calculation for my annualized expenses. The three cards in question (Infinia, Magnus and Atlas) has a very acceptable annual charge, so I am ignoring that totally.



Magnus is considered with Burgundy benefits. For Smartbuy considering it is 5x and 10x, I have taken 7x and Traveledge is 5x. It is clear that Atlas is a very strong card but then, I thought, what if I have Atlas+Infinia combination?

So if I use Infinia for GYFTR and SmartBuy I get 33333+46667 = 80000 and Atlas for direct and general, it is 80000+24000=104000, total 184000. Add 15K milestone of Atlas and 20K joining miles from Infinia and Atlas, I have a total of 2,19,000 miles. 12% return against total expense.

Atlas expense can only be used for flight and hotel, whereas Infinia can be routed to Apple and Tanishq and trains as well. This does look like a good main 2 driver cards to use. What do you all think?

I was slightly tempted by Magnus+Burgundy, but I don't want to shift to premium banking of Axis - and as you see from the table, I am not loosing much. What other cards would you recommend?

P.S - I have applied for Atlas, the card is coming in a week!

Thank you for reading.

 

[drsel]

Considering your travel spends like 1.5 to 2L the best travel card for you will be Axis ATLAS for sure. And combination of Amex MRCC + ATLAS is just amazing. You should start your travel CC journey with this winning combination without any hesitation.

With Amex MRCC 1500 x 4 per month, you need to wait 16 months to accumulate 18000 points

 

[mastfun]

Emerald private metal card is by invitation only. how did you manage to get it?

I was able to see it in my icici account as upgrade option

 

[irahul80]

Also read this article I wrote, which compares all the best cards (including Atlas and Amex) and tells you--
Which card to use and where?

This analysis is after deducting annual fees and also considering the welcome benefits--

1. Axis Magnus Burgundy (LTF) for offline & rent upto 50k 4.80%
2. Axis Magnus Burgundy (LTF) for Traveledge 24%, less 10% markup usually.
3. HDFC Infinia (2250) for SmartBuy airtickets 13.50% (since points can be used for only 70% of airfare)
4. Axis Atlas (better than free) for offline & online (except fuel, rent, insurance, wallet) 4.00/5.33/6.00/6.33% based on target spends <3lacs/3 lacs/7.5 lacs/15 lacs.
5. Axis Atlas for direct hotel and direct flights 10.00/11.33/12.00/12.33% based on target spends <3lacs/3 lacs/7.5 lacs/15 lacs
6. HDFC Tata infinity (LTF) for UPI 1.50% (1 on 34)
7. Amex MRCC (FY free, then 885) 1500 X 4 for Amazon GV 1st yr. 7.29%, 2nd yr onwards 5.70%
8. Amex Plat Travel (FY free, then 5900) for insurance, govt, Amazon GV 1st yr 6.3%, 2nd yr onwards 4.82% on 4 lacs, offline difficult.
9. SBI cashback (1179) for online 5% (upto 5000/month)
10. Any Kotak/PNB/Federal/Canbank card (----) for 25--35% discount (upto 5000/7500/10000 per booking, per card) on hotels on Cleartrip
11. Axis Airtel (590) for 25% on Airtel, 10% on utility bills 10% on Swiggy Zomato
12. HDFC Diners club black (only if free) for rent 2.87%
13. HDFC Diners club black Metal (if 1st yr free) for rent 5.37% (assuming 4L spends per quarter).
14. HDFC Diners club black Metal (11800) for rent 2.42% (assuming 4L spends per quarter)

Please like if you appreciate my advice, thank you 🙏

Probably the best compilation of cards and should be tagged / pinned in the forum. This will save so many man hours who is starting to look out for a good/best cc for oneself.
Many thanks again for sharing this treasure

 

[irahul80]

Considering your travel spends like 1.5 to 2L the best travel card for you will be Axis ATLAS for sure. And combination of Amex MRCC + ATLAS is just amazing. You should start your travel CC journey with this winning combination without any hesitation.

Great, many thanks for helping me and sharing this which eventually help many who might have this very doubt fot Axis Atlas, whether to go for this card with milestones a bit far away
Axis Atlas if for nothing else, pays way above it's joining fees and can definietly excite anyone who can afford Atlas to continue with it and keep routing any non-cashback transaction to this card to get more & more EM !!

 

[drsel]

Latest analysis

 

[techt]

Latest analysis

so whats the summary ??

 

[drsel]

so whats the summary ??

Avoid using Infinia because the 13.5% return on air tickets is an eyewash, because the airfares on Smartbuy are often inflated like Traveledge of Axis.

Also you won't get the 10% discount on International return air tickets, using various credit cards on Cleartrip/ MakeMyTrip.
But you have to pay the same convenience fee on Smartbuy.

Also you won't get the 25 to 35% discount on domestic and international hotels using Federal/Kotak/PNB/AU cards on Cleartrip

With Atlas, you can book airtickets on any airline website without any price inflation, convenience fee or discount.
But you will get 10.00/11.33/12.00/12.33% return in airmiles based on spends of >3lacs/3lacs/7.5lacs/15lacs per card anniversary year.

Also the only excluded categories on Atlas are EMI, wallet loads, fuel, rent over 50000/month, insurance over 5000/month;
while Infinia has got a lot of excluded categories.

Please like if you appreciate my honest genuine advice, thanks 🙏

 

[sourpai]

Dump Infinia because the 13.5% return on air tickets is an eyewash, because the airfares are inflated by approximately that much.

With Atlas, you can book on any airline website without any price inflation

Well thats not entirely true. You are arriving at conclusion based on one persons post. I have made multiple bookings at smartbuy and rates are at par since it gives rates for all 4 portals in one screen. Only additional charge is convenience fees which we cant avoid.

Other portals also have convenience charge, but there are some card offers to offset it. In direct airline booking you cant avoid that too e.g. air india

 

[drsel]

Well thats not entirely true. You are arriving at conclusion based on one persons post. I have made multiple bookings at smartbuy and rates are at par since it gives rates for all 4 portals in one screen. Only additional charge is convenience fees which we cant avoid.

Other portals also have convenience charge, but there are some card offers to offset it. In direct airline booking you cant avoid that too e.g. air india

You maybe right but the 10% credit card discount I get on air tickets on Cleartrip, MakeMyTrip, etc would reduce the Infinia return to 3.5% only.

25 to 35% discount on hotels both domestic and international with Kotak Federal AU cards on Cleartrip would make booking hotels with Infinia on Smartbuy meaningless

 

[sourpai]

You maybe right but the 10% credit card discount I get on air tickets on Cleartrip, MakeMyTrip, etc would reduce the Infinia return to 3.5% only.

25 to 35% discount on hotels both domestic and international with Kotak Federal AU cards on Cleartrip would make booking hotels on Smartbuy meaningless

There are lots of ifs and buts. For example, would you get total 10% discount for 3-4 people with each ticket costing 4-5K? At max you can get the convince fees recovered via card offers using Kotak / Federal / AU cards. At the end extra is convenience fees only

And even if smartbuy is 10% extra with convenience fees, return on it would be 13.5%*90% = 12.15%

 

[drsel]

There are lots of ifs and buts. For example, would you get total 10% discount for 3-4 people with each ticket costing 4-5K? At max you can get the convince fees recovered via card offers using Kotak / Federal / AU cards. At the end extra is convenience fees only

And even if smartbuy is 10% extra with convenience fees, return on it would be 13.5%*90% = 12.15%

I get 10000 discount on two return international airtickets costing just over one lac and convenience fee is around 3200, like smart buy

 

[sourpai]

I get 10000 discount on two return international airtickets costing just over one lac and convenience fee is around 3200, like smart buy

Sure. For this particular example of international travel and transaction value, cards you hold make more sense. I am mostly talking about domestic travel. I have also recently booked International tickets on cleartrip using Yes reserve with 10K discount offer

For my kind of travel pattern, which is both domestic and international with good frequency, all cards inlcluding Infinia smartbuy come in handy on different occasions. Can't generalise thought as best and worst

 

[drsel]

And even if smartbuy is 10% extra with convenience fees, return on it would be 13.5%*90% = 12.15%

This calculation is wrong.
Say that I spend 1 lakh on HDFC infinia and get 13500 return @13.5%

Then I buy air tickets of one lakh on Cleartrip/ MakeMyTrip for 90000 (after 10000 cc discount) + 3200 convenience fee
On Smartbuy I will have to pay 103,200 for the same air tickets. (that too assuming no price inflation, which happens sometimes).

So the Infinia benefit of 13500 gets reduced to 3500, because you have to forfeit the 10000 credit card discount available on Cleartrip/ MakeMyTrip

 

[sourpai]

This calculation is wrong.
Say that I spend 1 lakh on HDFC infinia and get 13500 return @13.5%

Then I buy air tickets of one lakh on Cleartrip/ MakeMyTrip for 90000 (after 10000 cc discount) + 3200 convenience fee
On Smartbuy I will have to pay 103,200 for the same air tickets. (that too assuming no price inflation, which happens sometimes).

So the Infinia benefit of 13500 gets reduced to 3500, because you have to forfeit the 10000 credit card discount available on Cleartrip/ MakeMyTrip

Well that is one way of looking at it. But I don't look at it this way. Also 30% spent on 1L ticket will give you 13.5%*30K = 4050 points which totals to 7550 gain

Also, majority of my accelerated earnings happen via smartbuy vouchers. So flight tickets come at 70% discount. Even if I pay 10% extra on smartbuy tickets, value per per point regular is 3.3*.9. = 3% and for accelerated spends it is 16%*.9 = 14.4%. Considering your logic of 13.5% it is 13.5*.9 = 12.15%

 

[drsel]

Well that is one way of looking at it. But I don't look at it this way. Also 30% spent on 1L ticket will give you 13.5%*30K = 4050 points which totals to 7550 gain

Also, majority of my accelerated earnings happen via smartbuy vouchers. So flight tickets come at 70% discount. Even if I pay 10% extra on smartbuy tickets, value per per point regular is 3.3*.9. = 3% and for accelerated spends it is 16%*.9 = 14.4%. Considering your logic of 13.5% it is 13.5*.9 = 12.15%

This is illogical.
To make it very clear, Let's take an extreme exaggeration and assume that Smartbuy air tickets are double the price.
(highly exaggerated just to make it clear)

By this logic --
If you pay double price for airtickets on Smartbuy, the 13.5% return of Infinia, according to you will become half, 13.5*.5 = 6.75%
(because you will now need double the number of points to pay the 70% component of the airtickets).

So if you pay 2 lacs for a 1 lac airticket, you will STILL consider the Infinia return to be 6.75% instead of 13.5% !!!

This is how smart Investment bankers at HDFC plan a complicated product to make profits for the bank

 

[drsel]

 

[sourpai]

Sure Man . If you have issues with the card, please don't take it

From what I understand, you have limited number of use cases and you are trying to fit in the card portfolio into your use cases. Which is perfectly fine. For example you are taking 1L ticket as only use case since so long. For that use case I have also used other cards

Not sure why it is so difficult to understand the method of earning via smartbuy vouchers and spending on airticket at 10% markup. If there is more than 10% markup, I book using other methods. Simple

But lets end the discussion here. And yes, banks are smarter than majority public out there. Thats why so much of consumer credit, EMIs and personal loans are being given

 

[infinia_finally]

Interesting discussion above. I am a newbie to Infinia and here, but this is the way I see it, and couldn't resist commenting.

For this example, 1L air ticket+ 3200 fees.
At one extreme, let's say I have zero points left. So I spend 1,03,200. Which gives me 17200 RPs, but with daily cap, I get 15000 RPs. That's my effective discount (which can be used for next booking, and should not be double counted as discount in next booking again).
Effective tkt price is 103200-15000=88200
Note: Someone said 70% discount as we use ,70% RP, but that's double counting. Those RPs were the discount earned on other past purchases.

The other extreme is. Let's say I had accumulated 70000 points. So I pay only 30000 + 3200 by Infinia which gives back 5525 RPs. Effective price is 103200-5525=97675

Real effective price (and effective discount) will lie somewhere in between depending on how many points are used.

With direct mmt offer, tkt price after 10% discount is 93200

Breakeven of 10000RPs and same effective price as direct discount is when I pay 60000 by card and rest 43200 by points, assuming I have them.

Now if I had lot of points, I view them as a separate bank account where my cashback (discount) from earlier transactions is deposited. Caveat being, I can use it only on flight, hotel for full value. CC companies use the principle of deferred discounts and that "Redemption of deferred discounts reduce future discounts", but you folks are veterans and already know that.

So what is the decision tree? Should I use direct mmt discount, or should I use points. Answer is "it depends". Are those points about to expire soon? Will I get an opportunity to use them at a time when no other great direct discounts are available? Maybe I will use up points on flight, and prefer to pay for hotel since it gives 10X RPs.

PS: For domestic, I have never seen marked up prices on smartbuy vs other platforms. It's possible that tracking cookies increase the price by the time you come from other website first and then come to smartbuy.

 

[techt]

Interesting discussion above. I am a newbie to Infinia and here, but this is the way I see it, and couldn't resist commenting.

For this example, 1L air ticket+ 3200 fees.
At one extreme, let's say I have zero points left. So I spend 1,03,200. Which gives me 17200 RPs, but with daily cap, I get 15000 RPs. That's my effective discount (which can be used for next booking, and should not be double counted as discount in next booking again).
Effective tkt price is 103200-15000=88200
Note: Someone said 70% discount as we use ,70% RP, but that's double counting. Those RPs were the discount earned on other past purchases.

The other extreme is. Let's say I had accumulated 70000 points. So I pay only 30000 + 3200 by Infinia which gives back 5525 RPs. Effective price is 103200-5525=97675

Real effective price (and effective discount) will lie somewhere in between depending on how many points are used.

With direct mmt offer, tkt price after 10% discount is 93200

Breakeven of 10000RPs and same effective price as direct discount is when I pay 60000 by card and rest 43200 by points, assuming I have them.

Now if I had lot of points, I view them as a separate bank account where my cashback (discount) from earlier transactions is deposited. Caveat being, I can use it only on flight, hotel for full value. CC companies use the principle of deferred discounts and that "Redemption of deferred discounts reduce future discounts", but you folks are veterans and already know that.

So what is the decision tree? Should I use direct mmt discount, or should I use points. Answer is "it depends". Are those points about to expire soon? Will I get an opportunity to use them at a time when no other great direct discounts are available? Maybe I will use up points on flight, and prefer to pay for hotel since it gives 10X RPs.

PS: For domestic, I have never seen marked up prices on smartbuy vs other platforms. It's possible that tracking cookies increase the price by the time you come from other website first and then come to smartbuy.

Wow... Vikram Betaal question will wait for someone to answer.
BTW someone told that the real deal is when a group booking (2+) is done. Most of the mmt, yatra etc have a cap in discounts effectively making the 2nd pax onwards not getting any. But smart buy rewards evenly for all the pax.

 

[nithin1992]

@drsel I've seen you post a lot against using Infinia for flights or hotels so here's an attempt to change your mind. The fact is there is no one card which is the best for all cases.

It really depends and you have to compare and decide for each scenario. There are genuine cases where booking flights on smartbuy works out to be cheaper than booking directly via indigo or other airline partners with Atlas / SBI CB. And it is also true that in some cases booking directly or via a travel aggregator is cheaper.

As for hotels, there are several hotels which I found booking via smartbuy a boon. For example, Intercontinental DaNang does not allow discounts on any of the portals such as Cleartrip, MMT etc but we still get 10x on Infinia. There are more such hotels that fall into this category.

I love Axis Atlas too, I've already spent 15L on it since I've got it. But at the same time Infinia is a stellar product too. Atlas is easy to get compared to Infinia but if you can get Infinia, then for sure you should. So my sincere request, do not discourage people looking to get Infinia.