Is there any debit card that has 0% markup for international ATM cash withdrawal

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

I know many DCs that have 0% markup on POS & online transactions.

And there probably will always be a ATM usage fee. Slapped on both by the ATM bank abroad and your own bank.

Still is there any DC that offers 0% or very low markup charges? And even better if they have a minimal ATM fee.

 

[sxchzy]

I believe IBR(with a very slight markup) is what Visa and Mastercard follow. A forex card is sold at a premium to IBR. I paid nearabout the same rate as what google showed on most of my withdrawal using my Mastercard and Visa zero forex DCs.
So my understanding is that Interbank rates are the most ideal rates.
And coming to conversion, most DCs and CCs follow their payment processors(Visa,MC,Discover,RUPAY,etc.) conversion rates, which are again based on IBR.
Spot rate should be the rate at which a FX transaction is completed right? What has that got anything to do with IBR?
Could you help me understand what is the difference between spot rate and IBR? And where can we find those rates for comparison.

okay
so spot rates are the rates at which transactions occur in real time by big institutions.
what you see as an index for usd/inr being at lets say 80,81,82 in real time is the spot rate.
now interbank rates are never shown live even though they change according to demand and supply.
so interbank rate can be said as the spot rate + banks and payment processors premium included.
i have rbl world safari cc and niyo global dc and niyo global dc has given me better rates for transacting compared to rbl world safari

 

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

people have misunderstood 0 forex markup part.
0 markup doesnt ean you will get spot rates
it means you will get interbank rates which already account for the markup
what you need to check is which forex card or debit or credit provides the lowest rate conversion and at what rate is it being done
and if any premium how much compared to spot

You're partly correct. Yes what we're trying to do is get the Visa mid market rate (or as close to it as possible). That's the best we can do.

 

[sxchzy]

yu

You're partly correct. Yes what we're trying to do is get the Visa mid market rate (or as close to it as possible). That's the best we can do.

p thats why i said once compare the interbank rates of visa/mc/rupay on google wtih your forex card loading rates and niyo global rates and proceed with whichever is the best one for you

 

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

yu

p thats why i said once compare the interbank rates of visa/mc/rupay on google wtih your forex card loading rates and niyo global rates and proceed with whichever is the best one for you

How do you get those rates? Forex card sure... but I'm trying to avoid that and use a DC. How do I get any DC rate before hand? Banks don't publish that. At best they publish ATM fees.

 

[sxchzy]

How do you get those rates? Forex card sure... but I'm trying to avoid that and use a DC. How do I get any DC rate before hand? Banks don't publish that. At best they publish ATM fees.

As someone me tinned here the interbank rates of visa Mc are the rates shown on Google.
Or visit a branch nearby which will show the same.
A Kotak branch near me shows forex rates of all major international currencies

 

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

Or visit a branch nearby which will show the same.
A Kotak branch near me shows forex rates of all major international currencies

Visa mid market rate is published here - https://www.visa.co.in/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

For Kotak - those are cash and forex card buy/sell rates. How are those equated with your DC charges? https://www.kotak.com/en/rates/forex-rates.html

 

[CARDBITRAGE]

okay
so spot rates are the rates at which transactions occur in real time by big institutions.
what you see as an index for usd/inr being at lets say 80,81,82 in real time is the spot rate.
now interbank rates are never shown live even though they change according to demand and supply.
so interbank rate can be said as the spot rate + banks and payment processors premium included.
i have rbl world safari cc and niyo global dc and niyo global dc has given me better rates for transacting compared to rbl world safari

Hmm. Niyo also uses Visa exchange rates. All CC an DC use their payment processor rates and it has nothing to do with the bank adding charges. They will only do that through forex markup. So technically you will be getting the best rates(~IBR) with your zero forex markup card, irrespective of the bank that issued you that card.

 

[sxchzy]

Visa mid market rate is published here - https://www.visa.co.in/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html

For Kotak - those are cash and forex card buy/sell rates. How are those equated with your DC charges? https://www.kotak.com/en/rates/forex-rates.html

ok
so on visa website gpb rate is 1 GBP = 102.724004 INR
and the markup is % Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 2.33
kotak rates show as

so bank seems to be cheaper here assuming they dont have any other hidden charges

102.48

 

[sxchzy]

ok
so on visa website gpb rate is 1 GBP = 102.724004 INR
and the markup is % Mark-up over European Central Bank Rate = 2.33
kotak rates show as

so bank seems to be cheaper here assuming they dont have any other hidden charges

102.48

these are yestersdays rates
todays spot rates for gbp inr is at 105

 

[CARDBITRAGE]

How do you get those rates? Forex card sure... but I'm trying to avoid that and use a DC. How do I get any DC rate before hand? Banks don't publish that. At best they publish ATM fees.

As you are aware the rates are dynamic. Once settled, the prevailing rate will be considered.
Visa rates- https://www.visa.co.in/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html
Mastercard rates- https://www.mastercard.com/global/en/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html
Just put markup as zero while checking the rates.

 

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

As you are aware the rates are dynamic. Once settled, the prevailing rate will be considered.
Visa rates- https://www.visa.co.in/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html
Mastercard rates- https://www.mastercard.com/global/en/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html
Just put markup as zero while checking the rates.

Yes but this is post settlement.

I want to make an informed decision and go with that. I don't want to withdraw cash on 8 different cards in a foreign ATM to find out where I'm getting the best rates.

I do believe that some are honest and charge the Visa rate. While I'm sure there are plenty who are shady.

And overall any bank is fine. But Niyo to me has some credibility and trust issues. On the other hand I don't want to move 5L into IndusInd either because I do stand to lose out on interest rates etc. (I have sweep in/sweep out etc. which would be painful to setup with IndusInd again just for this).

Also, are the rates dynamic? The Visa mid market rate is constant through the day isn't it? For CCs the problem is the day of settlement. For DCs that problem shouldn't be there.

 

[imdjay]

@PiperatGatesofDawn Just FYI, You can safely ignore some people's posts because they do not make sense.

 

[CARDBITRAGE]

Yes but this is post settlement.

I want to make an informed decision and go with that. I don't want to withdraw cash on 8 different cards in a foreign ATM to find out where I'm getting the best rates.

I do believe that some are honest and charge the Visa rate. While I'm sure there are plenty who are shady.

And overall any bank is fine. But Niyo to me has some credibility and trust issues. On the other hand I don't want to move 5L into IndusInd either because I do stand to lose out on interest rates etc. (I have sweep in/sweep out etc. which would be painful to setup with IndusInd again just for this).

Also, are the rates dynamic? The Visa mid market rate is constant through the day isn't it? For CCs the problem is the day of settlement. For DCs that problem shouldn't be there.

Ah, I understand. But I urge you to stay away from Niyo. The last time I was in Dubai, I couldn't access my funds for an entire day due to some technical issue. But if they say it is zero forex markup, it will be the rates of the payment processor. They will charge the prevailing rate at which you do your transaction. Once I complete my transactions, I always tend to check what the conversion was like. It was always close to IBR in my case.

I feel it is quite transparent. All the transaction fees are mentioned before proceeding with your withdrawal. But you will get tricked by all ATMs to get charged exorbitant amounts. I could discuss about that if you're interested.

You're right. Leaving 2L in savings(IndusInd Exclusive) is not a smart choice. But IndusInd allows you to convert your account to Zero MAB through some criteria. I converted mine by getting the IndusInd Pinnacle CC. Or you could get general insurance of 20k linked to your account.

Check This: Relationship Criteria for IndusInd Exclusive

And no, the rates are indeed dynamic. In CC as you said, it will be determined by the date and time of settlement. For DCs, it is instant.

 

[PiperatGatesofDawn]

I feel it is quite transparent. All the transaction fees are mentioned before proceeding with your withdrawal. But you will get tricked by all ATMs to get charged exorbitant amounts. I could discuss about that if you're interested.

Please share.

 

[haroldh]

Niyo had now partnered with Equitas Bank for the Niyo global forex card. Same features as the SBM Niyo card. The only difference being it’s a FYF debit card followed by 299+GST as annual fee.
However, the benefits outweigh the charges or you can just close within a year.

Are you sure it is FYF? Customer care told its ltf

 

[CARDBITRAGE]

Please share.

You may be aware of this, but for the sake of others viewing the thread, a good rule of thumb is to max out the per-transaction limit for that particular ATM for withdrawal, unless you don't require that much money. Also, a few things to keep in mind.
1. Always try to withdraw money from ATMs inside banks as they are more secure and less prone to card skimmers. Bank ATMs generally have lower usage fees compared to non-bank ATMs.
2. Always go with the local bank ATMs(of that country abroad) as opposed to foreign bank ATMs as the usage fee is much lower. And if the machine eats your card, you can retrieve it by contacting the local branch.
3. Always withdraw money from where the locals withdraw, or at a place that has 24/7 surveillance and security. Avoid standalone ATMs and those in touristy areas at all costs. Unless you have no choice. These are typically hotspots for card skimmers.
4. Do a bit of research about which local banks(of that country abroad) offer you zero/low fees on withdrawal and high per transaction withdrawal. For example, in the UK fee-free ATMs have "free cash withdrawals" written on them.
5. I keep money in two accounts and transfer a particular sum of money to the account I will transact with, as and when I require it. Why? Because in case of fraud, I must fight to get it back. In the case of credit cards, that burden falls on the card issuer.

Now for the dirty tactics used by banks. Now we all know while using credit cards abroad, you should always choose to pay in the local currency of the country you are in. If you choose to pay in INR, the receiver's banks will levy HEFTY DCC charges(legal scam). Similarly, after inputting the amount to withdraw in ATMs, you will be prompted to either accept or decline the conversion. Logically, your mind will tell you "accept" the conversion, but that will be the most stupid thing to do! ALWAYS SELECT "DECLINE THE CONVERSION" OR CHOOSE "WITHDRAW IN LOCAL CURRENCY", whichever is displayed. Usually, the conversion they are offering will have a premium of 10-15%! And that too for nothing. Better to let our Indian banks do the conversion for us.

 

[0xfallup]

You may be aware of this, but for the sake of others viewing the thread, a good rule of thumb is to max out the per-transaction limit for that particular ATM for withdrawal, unless you don't require that much money. Also, a few things to keep in mind.
1. Always try to withdraw money from ATMs inside banks as they are more secure and less prone to card skimmers. Bank ATMs generally have lower usage fees compared to non-bank ATMs.
2. Always go with the local bank ATMs(of that country abroad) as opposed to foreign bank ATMs as the usage fee is much lower. And if the machine eats your card, you can retrieve it by contacting the local branch.
3. Always withdraw money from where the locals withdraw, or at a place that has 24/7 surveillance and security. Avoid standalone ATMs and those in touristy areas at all costs. Unless you have no choice. These are typically hotspots for card skimmers.
4. Do a bit of research about which local banks(of that country abroad) offer you zero/low fees on withdrawal and high per transaction withdrawal. For example, in the UK fee-free ATMs have "free cash withdrawals" written on them.
5. I keep money in two accounts and transfer a particular sum of money to the account I will transact with, as and when I require it. Why? Because in case of fraud, I must fight to get it back. In the case of credit cards, that burden falls on the card issuer.

Now for the dirty tactics used by banks. Now we all know while using credit cards abroad, you should always choose to pay in the local currency of the country you are in. If you choose to pay in INR, the receiver's banks will levy HEFTY DCC charges(legal scam). Similarly, after inputting the amount to withdraw in ATMs, you will be prompted to either accept or decline the conversion. Logically, your mind will tell you "accept" the conversion, but that will be the most stupid thing to do! ALWAYS SELECT "DECLINE THE CONVERSION" OR CHOOSE "WITHDRAW IN LOCAL CURRENCY", whichever is displayed. Usually, the conversion they are offering will have a premium of 10-15%! And that too for nothing. Better to let our Indian banks do the conversion for us.

Thank you good man !

 

[rishabk27775]

Indusind exclusive cards have no markup.

 

[NikhilG]

No brainer ….. IndusInd exclusive dc vrom 🙂

don't forget, mab is 1 lakh for the same and you earn just 3.5 percent for that 1 lakh compared to say rate where else where you might be earning 7.5%. So per year you are shelling 4k to keep that card

 

[sxchzy]

don't forget, mab is 1 lakh for the same and you earn just 3.5 percent for that 1 lakh compared to say rate where else where you might be earning 7.5%. So per year you are shelling 4k to keep that card

with pinnacle cc you get it as 0 mab