Gold Charge Retention - Is it worth it?

[username_x]

Hello all!

My first thread! I know this question has been asked a lot, but stay with me on this one.
I have a Gold Charge Card, and like many people reported, AMEX is not offering me any renewal offers.
So if I renew it, I will spend 5,310/- (Rs. 4,500/- + GST). Here is what I get back, as I spend it only on Gyftr.
Rs. 20k APay Vouchers through Gyftr (10k on main + 10k on add-on) = 2k points per month
6 x 1,000/- Transactions milestone = 1k points (By breaking down purchase of 20k APay into 6 transactions)
Expense: 1.5% of 20k + GST = Rs. 540/-

So Annual Math is this:
Expense = Rs. 2,49,558/- (Including renewal fee & Gyftr Fee)
Points = 36,648 (including points on Gyftr Convenience Fee)

Considering 50p per 1 MB Point, this is a return of 7.34%.

Now my questions on this:

1. Is 7.26% good?
2. Is 50p/ MB Point a fair assessment?
3. I am not really partial towards Marriott only. I like Accor equally, and have Axis Atlas as well (but NOT Infinia or Magnus or Emerald etc.). Can I get better return elsewhere?

Thank you for reading, and looking forward to your replies!

 

[Guddi]

I think you're confusing Gold Charge with MRCC. Confirm which one you're talking about.

 

[username_x]

I think you're confusing Gold Charge with MRCC. Confirm which one you're talking about.

My bad. I meant 1000 x 6 transactions, which gives 1,000 bonus points per month. I have edited the original post.

 

[Bionick]

I think you're confusing Gold Charge with MRCC. Confirm which one you're talking about.

He's right. His calculations are inline with the 5X reward points on gold charge via reward multiplier

 

[aceventura]

Have you included the card fees in the calculation? The biggest sticking point with Gold charge is rewards are maximised at 72K annual spend and the annual fees further reduce the reward % significantly.

With respect to 0.5Rs per RP, it is only attainable with either using it for Marriott or selling the Marriott points.

 

[username_x]

Have you included the card fees in the calculation? The biggest sticking point with Gold charge is rewards are maximised at 72K annual spend and the annual fees further reduce the reward % significantly.

With respect to 0.5Rs per RP, it is only attainable with either using it for Marriott or selling the Marriott points.

Yes, I did. Also, I am talking about Marriott only.
72k Annual spend doesn't justify the return on the renewal fee.

But my calculation is different, with a higher spend. Have a closer look at the original post.
The main question is that is 7.34% a good return on the investment?

 

[Aniket Sharma]

Yes, I did. Also, I am talking about Marriott only.
72k Annual spend doesn't justify the return on the renewal fee.

But my calculation is different, with a higher spend. Have a closer look at the original post.
The main question is that is 7.34% a good return on the investment?

Really?

If its acceptable at all places then we can consider higher spends.

Majorly its not accepted

 

[malavkarkar]

Why are you limiting your Gold expenses to Amazon only? Amex Reward Multiplier and Gyftr Amex has a lot of other brands, that is if you're considering it.

 

[malavkarkar]

Is 7.26% good?

It's good enough I'd say.

Is 50p/ MB Point a fair assessment?

Slightly lower than average, but better to be surprised than disappointed.

I am not really partial towards Marriott only. I like Accor equally, and have Axis Atlas as well (but NOT Infinia or Magnus or Emerald etc.). Can I get better return elsewhere?

I'd say, switch to one program if you're also considering maintaining a status with any. It will be better for long term.

 

[username_x]

Really?

If its acceptable at all places then we can consider higher spends.

Majorly its not accepted

That is why I use it for Amazon pay Vouchers. 5X return, and Apay's acceptance is quite high, especially online.

Why are you limiting your Gold expenses to Amazon only? Amex Reward Multiplier and Gyftr Amex has a lot of other brands, that is if you're considering it.

You are right. But using Amazon pay gives me the flexibility to spend it at multiple places. Otherwise, of course I can use it for other places, but my spending at other sites is not that much, and usually unplanned. Btw, thanks for the detailed reply in the next post!

 

[aceventura]

Yes, I did. Also, I am talking about Marriott only.
72k Annual spend doesn't justify the return on the renewal fee.

But my calculation is different, with a higher spend. Have a closer look at the original post.
The main question is that is 7.34% a good return on the investment?

Your return calculation is wrong, you should not add card fees in the expenses, rather it should be deducted from the reward (converted to Rs).

Return rate = (rewards converted to Rs - card fees - gyftr fees)/total spend

 

[username_x]

I'd say, switch to one program if you're also considering maintaining a status with any. It will be better for long term.

Umm .. actually I think of it like this. Atlas gives me an option to transfer only 30k points to Accor in an year. So I am limited like that. At max., I can transfer 60k points for 1st (at the end) & 2nd (at the start) years. That gives me a value of 1.2L. It may not be enough for a complete vacation outside India. So, I am also stocking-up on Marriott points. Both hotel chains are present in abundance.

 

[username_x]

Your return calculation is wrong, you should not add card fees in the expenses, rather it should be deducted from the reward (converted to Rs).

Return rate = (rewards converted to Rs - card fees)/total spend

I am unable to find a flaw in your reasoning, but I am also not able to accept it. I see return rate as total gain / total expenditure. And the renewal fee is definitely on the expense side. Ultimately the renewal fee is part of your spends only, which allowed you to get the return.

 

[aceventura]

I am unable to find a flaw in your reasoning, but I am also not able to accept it. I see return rate as total gain / total expenditure. And the renewal fee is definitely on the expense side. Ultimately the renewal fee is part of your spends only, which allowed you to get the return.

What is the equivalent Good you are getting for the card fees - nothing.

Do a comparative analysis with spending cash instead of the card. Any additional expense you are making while using the card should be deducted from the rewards.

Alternatively assume the card fees as 20k instead of 5k. Calculate the return % using your method. Then see that the rewards in rs is actually lesser than the card fees that you would have spent.

 

[malavkarkar]

Umm .. actually I think of it like this. Atlas gives me an option to transfer only 30k points to Accor in an year. So I am limited like that. At max., I can transfer 60k points for 1st (at the end) & 2nd (at the start) years. That gives me a value of 1.2L. It may not be enough for a complete vacation outside India. So, I am also stocking-up on Marriott points. Both hotel chains are present in abundance.

Sticking to one will be better for long term if you're considering maintaining a status any of the two.

Think of it like this. If you're traveling for 25 nights in a year, and doing 10 nights with one brand and 15 nights with other brand, it won't get you anywhere as far as status is concerned. But if you do all 25 in a single brand, let's say Marriott, that will get you Gold status with Marriott. On top of this, Marriott has a credit card that gives you elite night credits, and Accor also has some offers from time to time to fast-track your status.

Sticking to one brand will of course increase your expenses slightly, because you will be more likely to avoid cheaper hotels of other brands, but this will elevate your hotel experience exponentially. So if you're doing more than 25 nights of travel in a calendar year, it's more beneficial to switch to a single brand.

 

[aceventura]

Computing Reward Rate

Expense = Rs. 2,49,558/- (Including renewal fee & Gyftr Fee)
Reward Points = 36,648 (including points on Gyftr Convenience Fee) => Rs 18,324 (@ 0.5 Rs/point)
Goods received from the Expense = Rs 2,40,000 (Apay Vouchers)

Net Rewards = Goods + Rewards - Expense = 2,40,000 + 18,324 - 2,49,558 = Rs 8766

Net Reward Rate = Net Rewards / Expense * 100 = (8,766 / 2,49,558)*100 = 3.5%

Is it worth it? No, there are other cards that does better than this.

The only way you can make this better:
1. Buy vouchers that dont have convenience fees - but whether it is useful is upto your use case
2. Get annual fee waiver
3. Hunt for deals in Marriott Bonvoy to improve your reward conversion rate from Rs 0.5/point to Rs 1 or more per point

 

[Guddi]

Hello all!

My first thread! I know this question has been asked a lot, but stay with me on this one.
I have a Gold Charge Card, and like many people reported, AMEX is not offering me any renewal offers.
So if I renew it, I will spend 5,310/- (Rs. 4,500/- + GST). Here is what I get back, as I spend it only on Gyftr.
Rs. 20k APay Vouchers through Gyftr (10k on main + 10k on add-on) = 2k points per month
6 x 1,000/- Transactions milestone = 1k points (By breaking down purchase of 20k APay into 6 transactions)
Expense: 1.5% of 20k + GST = Rs. 540/-

So Annual Math is this:
Expense = Rs. 2,49,558/- (Including renewal fee & Gyftr Fee)
Points = 36,648 (including points on Gyftr Convenience Fee)

Considering 50p per 1 MB Point, this is a return of 7.34%.

Now my questions on this:

1. Is 7.26% good?
2. Is 50p/ MB Point a fair assessment?
3. I am not really partial towards Marriott only. I like Accor equally, and have Axis Atlas as well (but NOT Infinia or Magnus or Emerald etc.). Can I get better return elsewhere?

Thank you for reading, and looking forward to your replies!

Better to stick to only 1k*6 transactions per month. Reward rate goes down significantly after that

 

[rogerthat]

Computing Reward Rate

Expense = Rs. 2,49,558/- (Including renewal fee & Gyftr Fee)
Reward Points = 36,648 (including points on Gyftr Convenience Fee) => Rs 18,324 (@ 0.5 Rs/point)
Goods received from the Expense = Rs 2,40,000 (Apay Vouchers)

Net Rewards = Goods + Rewards - Expense = 2,40,000 + 18,324 - 2,49,558 = Rs 8766

Net Reward Rate = Net Rewards / Expense * 100 = (8,766 / 2,49,558)*100 = 3.5%

Is it worth it? No, there are other cards that does better than this.

The only way you can make this better:
1. Buy vouchers that dont have convenience fees - but whether it is useful is upto your use case
2. Get annual fee waiver
3. Hunt for deals in Marriott Bonvoy to improve your reward conversion rate from Rs 0.5/point to Rs 1 or more per point

It is not really worth it even you were to use it only for meeting the monthly milestone rewards of 1000*6 spends

You get monthly 1600 MR points (including milestone bonus) and hence 19200 MR points a year valued at 9600.

Net Rewards = Goods + Rewards - Expense = 72,000 + 9,600 - 78,584 = Rs 3016 (if all purchases are Amazon Pay vouchers)

Net reward rate is nearly 4%. Or about the same as Axis Atlas.

So renewing AMEX Gold card is like adding a 10k transfer bonus to Atlas.

(Edit: Forgot to factor in the GST portion in the APay GV surcharge. But the calculation remains more or less the same)

 

[malavkarkar]

Better to stick to only 1k*6 transactions per month. Reward rate goes down significantly after that

This is very flawed logic.

You can continue to rack up to 25k bonus points a month by making transactions on Reward Multiplier and Gyftr. For reference, this is what my spendings on two Gold cards looked like.

Vouchers (Amazon, Myntra, M&S, Zomato, PVR, Nykaa, Uber) - ₹4.76L
Shopping (Apple, Ajio, Tata Cliq) - ₹3.68L
Flights (Etihad, MMT) - ₹2.27L

All these were 5x transactions. That's 1.07L points + 24k milestone bonus points on expense of ₹10.7L. That's not a low reward rate by any means.

 

[rogerthat]

This is very flawed logic.

You can continue to rack up to 25k bonus points a month by making transactions on Reward Multiplier and Gyftr. For reference, this is what my spendings on two Gold cards looked like.

Vouchers (Amazon, Myntra, M&S, Zomato, PVR, Nykaa, Uber) - ₹4.76L
Shopping (Apple, Ajio, Tata Cliq) - ₹3.68L
Flights (Etihad, MMT) - ₹2.27L

All these were 5x transactions. That's 1.07L points + 24k milestone bonus points on expense of ₹10.7L. That's not a low reward rate by any means.

Were you buying an iPhone every other month or what?

Come on, nobody has this much voucher spends for clothing and electronics on a regular basis.

Now that Amazon Pay doesn't accept Gift Vouchers for insurance premium payments of more than 25k the use case for bulk APay GV purchase is essentially dead. Before that devaluation I used to purchase 5L worth of APay GVs every year. Now it is hardly 75K.