(1/n) Rupee Value of ER vs HDFC RPs vs Amex MRs vs Stan Chart Rewards 360

[CC_Fire]

New member here looking to build a proper CC portfolio of super premium cards. Consideration set is HDFC Infinia, Axis Magnus, Amex Plat Charge, SC Ultimate. Since they all have different RPs, it may be beneficial to work out a Rs value to then allow better comparison across the cards

1. HDFC Infinia => 1RP = ₹1 (Since its quite easy to redeem these for flights & hotels before they expire)

2. SC 360 Rewards=> 1RP = ₹1 (Since again quite easy to redeem these 1:1 for a wide range of vouchers from uber/big basket/etc)

Now we come to the more complicated ones

3. Axis Edge rewards ("ER") => 1ER = ₹0.66

Value of ERs will vary for different people.

For me, these extract the most value when redeemed for air/hotel partners. It may not be the same for everyone but we can agree that this establishes a ceiling for ER values

1. 1ER = 0.8 MB (Marriott Bonvoy points)
   • range in value from ₹0.4 (for domestic hotels) to ₹2 (for international hotels).
   • Assuming a 5:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for MB points = ₹0.65.
   • This sounds fair since TPG also values this at $0.8 per point
2. 1ER = 0.8 CV (Club Vistara points)
   • range in value from ₹0.8 (for domestic flights) to ₹2 (for international flights).
     • CV DEL->BOM return economy = 10000CV points and is usually 8000Rs (CV = Rs0.8)
     • CV DEL->BLR return economy = 15000CV and is usually 11000-12000Rs (CV= Rs0.75)
     • CV Del -> LON return economy = 60000CV and is usually 1-1.5L (CV = 1.6 - 2.5)
   • Assuming a 10:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for CV points = ₹0.9

Assuming my ER redemptions are 70% flights and 30% hotels = 0.8*(70%*0.9+30%*0.65) = 0.66

4. Amex Membership Rewards ("AMR") = 1AMR = ₹0.55

AMRs are similar to ERs in that the best redemptions also seem to be flight and hotel partners. Infact, in this case best to get MBs only since flight redemptions are only at 50% of AMRs

So essentially 1AMR = 1MB

But due to lack of many choices and that all your travel cannot always be with marriott hotels in mind, we should apply a subjective discount to the value (say 15%).
So Value of 1AMR = 0.85MB = 0.55 (which is close to what you can get with 24k rewards in terms of Taj vouchers also)

So to summarise

1 HDFC RP ("HRP") = ₹1
1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1
1 Axis Edge Reward ("ER") = ₹0.66
1 Amex Membership reward ("ER") = ₹0.55

In subsequent posts, we can analyse the best reward structure for different spends (Rent, insurance, Fuel, utilities, Amazon shopping etc etc).

 

[SiddharthR]

New member here looking to build a proper CC portfolio of super premium cards. Consideration set is HDFC Infinia, Axis Magnus, Amex Plat Charge, SC Ultimate. Since they all have different RPs, it may be beneficial to work out a Rs value to then allow better comparison across the cards

1. HDFC Infinia => 1RP = ₹1 (Since its quite easy to redeem these for flights & hotels before they expire)

2. SC 360 Rewards=> 1RP = ₹1 (Since again quite easy to redeem these 1:1 for a wide range of vouchers from uber/big basket/etc)

Now we come to the more complicated ones

3. Axis Edge rewards ("ER") => 1ER = ₹0.66

Value of ERs will vary for different people.

For me, these extract the most value when redeemed for air/hotel partners. It may not be the same for everyone but we can agree that this establishes a ceiling for ER values

1. 1ER = 0.8 MB (Marriott Bonvoy points)
   • range in value from ₹0.4 (for domestic hotels) to ₹2 (for international hotels).
   • Assuming a 5:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for MB points = ₹0.65.
   • This sounds fair since TPG also values this at $0.8 per point
2. 1ER = 0.8 CV (Club Vistara points)
   • range in value from ₹0.8 (for domestic flights) to ₹2 (for international flights).
     • CV DEL->BOM return economy = 10000CV points and is usually 8000Rs (CV = Rs0.8)
     • CV DEL->BLR return economy = 15000CV and is usually 11000-12000Rs (CV= Rs0.75)
     • CV Del -> LON return economy = 60000CV and is usually 1-1.5L (CV = 1.6 - 2.5)
   • Assuming a 10:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for CV points = ₹0.9

Assuming my ER redemptions are 70% flights and 30% hotels = 0.8*(70%*0.9+30%*0.65) = 0.66

4. Amex Membership Rewards ("AMR") = 1AMR = ₹0.55

AMRs are similar to ERs in that the best redemptions also seem to be flight and hotel partners. Infact, in this case best to get MBs only since flight redemptions are only at 50% of AMRs

So essentially 1AMR = 1MB

But due to lack of many choices and that all your travel cannot always be with marriott hotels in mind, we should apply a subjective discount to the value (say 15%).
So Value of 1AMR = 0.85MB = 0.55 (which is close to what you can get with 24k rewards in terms of Taj vouchers also)

So to summarise

1 HDFC RP ("HRP") = ₹1
1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1
1 Axis Edge Reward ("ER") = ₹0.66
1 Amex Membership reward ("ER") = ₹0.55

In subsequent posts, we can analyse the best reward structure for different spends (Rent, insurance, Fuel, utilities, Amazon shopping etc etc).

Doesn't HDFC have different RP value for different cards?

 

[cardoptimizer]

Doesn't HDFC have different RP value for different cards?

Infinia and Diners black has 1:1 point redemption. Rest are not covered as they aren't premium cards.

 

[CC_Fire]

Doesn't HDFC have different RP value for different cards?

Sure, but i have looked at from an Infinia standpoint.

 

[CC_Fire]

Check this and let us know, is

1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1?

So I am not sure about other cards by Ultimate has loads of 1:1 redemption options

Vistara, MMT, Nykaa, Taj, ITC, Myntra, Marriott etc

I remember seeing Uber/Cliq but not on the website anymore so I guess this is a changing list.

You will be able to extract 1:1 for a reasonable amount but not BIG amounts i guess.

On the whole, I agree SC isnt a very compelling option

 

[CMG]

New member here looking to build a proper CC portfolio of super premium cards. Consideration set is HDFC Infinia, Axis Magnus, Amex Plat Charge, SC Ultimate. Since they all have different RPs, it may be beneficial to work out a Rs value to then allow better comparison across the cards

1. HDFC Infinia => 1RP = ₹1 (Since its quite easy to redeem these for flights & hotels before they expire)

2. SC 360 Rewards=> 1RP = ₹1 (Since again quite easy to redeem these 1:1 for a wide range of vouchers from uber/big basket/etc)

Now we come to the more complicated ones

3. Axis Edge rewards ("ER") => 1ER = ₹0.66

Value of ERs will vary for different people.

For me, these extract the most value when redeemed for air/hotel partners. It may not be the same for everyone but we can agree that this establishes a ceiling for ER values

1. 1ER = 0.8 MB (Marriott Bonvoy points)
   • range in value from ₹0.4 (for domestic hotels) to ₹2 (for international hotels).
   • Assuming a 5:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for MB points = ₹0.65.
   • This sounds fair since TPG also values this at $0.8 per point
2. 1ER = 0.8 CV (Club Vistara points)
   • range in value from ₹0.8 (for domestic flights) to ₹2 (for international flights).
     • CV DEL->BOM return economy = 10000CV points and is usually 8000Rs (CV = Rs0.8)
     • CV DEL->BLR return economy = 15000CV and is usually 11000-12000Rs (CV= Rs0.75)
     • CV Del -> LON return economy = 60000CV and is usually 1-1.5L (CV = 1.6 - 2.5)
   • Assuming a 10:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for CV points = ₹0.9

Assuming my ER redemptions are 70% flights and 30% hotels = 0.8*(70%*0.9+30%*0.65) = 0.66

4. Amex Membership Rewards ("AMR") = 1AMR = ₹0.55

AMRs are similar to ERs in that the best redemptions also seem to be flight and hotel partners. Infact, in this case best to get MBs only since flight redemptions are only at 50% of AMRs

So essentially 1AMR = 1MB

But due to lack of many choices and that all your travel cannot always be with marriott hotels in mind, we should apply a subjective discount to the value (say 15%).
So Value of 1AMR = 0.85MB = 0.55 (which is close to what you can get with 24k rewards in terms of Taj vouchers also)

So to summarise

1 HDFC RP ("HRP") = ₹1
1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1
1 Axis Edge Reward ("ER") = ₹0.66
1 Amex Membership reward ("ER") = ₹0.55

In subsequent posts, we can analyse the best reward structure for different spends (Rent, insurance, Fuel, utilities, Amazon shopping etc etc).

0.66 for 1ER point is 3.96% reward rate for magnus.

 

[CC_Fire]

0.66 for 1ER point is 3.96% reward rate for magnus.

Higher if you hit the milestone or get the multiplier rewards. But for a base rate, that is quite good

 

[TheMentalist]

New member here looking to build a proper CC portfolio of super premium cards. Consideration set is HDFC Infinia, Axis Magnus, Amex Plat Charge, SC Ultimate. Since they all have different RPs, it may be beneficial to work out a Rs value to then allow better comparison across the cards

1. HDFC Infinia => 1RP = ₹1 (Since its quite easy to redeem these for flights & hotels before they expire)

2. SC 360 Rewards=> 1RP = ₹1 (Since again quite easy to redeem these 1:1 for a wide range of vouchers from uber/big basket/etc)

Now we come to the more complicated ones

3. Axis Edge rewards ("ER") => 1ER = ₹0.66

Value of ERs will vary for different people.

For me, these extract the most value when redeemed for air/hotel partners. It may not be the same for everyone but we can agree that this establishes a ceiling for ER values

1. 1ER = 0.8 MB (Marriott Bonvoy points)
   • range in value from ₹0.4 (for domestic hotels) to ₹2 (for international hotels).
   • Assuming a 5:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for MB points = ₹0.65.
   • This sounds fair since TPG also values this at $0.8 per point
2. 1ER = 0.8 CV (Club Vistara points)
   • range in value from ₹0.8 (for domestic flights) to ₹2 (for international flights).
     • CV DEL->BOM return economy = 10000CV points and is usually 8000Rs (CV = Rs0.8)
     • CV DEL->BLR return economy = 15000CV and is usually 11000-12000Rs (CV= Rs0.75)
     • CV Del -> LON return economy = 60000CV and is usually 1-1.5L (CV = 1.6 - 2.5)
   • Assuming a 10:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for CV points = ₹0.9

Assuming my ER redemptions are 70% flights and 30% hotels = 0.8*(70%*0.9+30%*0.65) = 0.66

4. Amex Membership Rewards ("AMR") = 1AMR = ₹0.55

AMRs are similar to ERs in that the best redemptions also seem to be flight and hotel partners. Infact, in this case best to get MBs only since flight redemptions are only at 50% of AMRs

So essentially 1AMR = 1MB

But due to lack of many choices and that all your travel cannot always be with marriott hotels in mind, we should apply a subjective discount to the value (say 15%).
So Value of 1AMR = 0.85MB = 0.55 (which is close to what you can get with 24k rewards in terms of Taj vouchers also)

So to summarise

1 HDFC RP ("HRP") = ₹1
1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1
1 Axis Edge Reward ("ER") = ₹0.66
1 Amex Membership reward ("ER") = ₹0.55

In subsequent posts, we can analyse the best reward structure for different spends (Rent, insurance, Fuel, utilities, Amazon shopping etc etc).

Have you considered the additional taxes component in your CV points calculation?

 

[CC_Fire]

Have you considered the additional taxes component in your CV points calculation?

Apart from Stan Chart redemption fee of 99 + GST, are there any other cost of redemptions for the others?

 

[yashbhavnani]

H

New member here looking to build a proper CC portfolio of super premium cards. Consideration set is HDFC Infinia, Axis Magnus, Amex Plat Charge, SC Ultimate. Since they all have different RPs, it may be beneficial to work out a Rs value to then allow better comparison across the cards

1. HDFC Infinia => 1RP = ₹1 (Since its quite easy to redeem these for flights & hotels before they expire)

2. SC 360 Rewards=> 1RP = ₹1 (Since again quite easy to redeem these 1:1 for a wide range of vouchers from uber/big basket/etc)

Now we come to the more complicated ones

3. Axis Edge rewards ("ER") => 1ER = ₹0.66

Value of ERs will vary for different people.

For me, these extract the most value when redeemed for air/hotel partners. It may not be the same for everyone but we can agree that this establishes a ceiling for ER values

1. 1ER = 0.8 MB (Marriott Bonvoy points)
   • range in value from ₹0.4 (for domestic hotels) to ₹2 (for international hotels).
   • Assuming a 5:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for MB points = ₹0.65.
   • This sounds fair since TPG also values this at $0.8 per point
2. 1ER = 0.8 CV (Club Vistara points)
   • range in value from ₹0.8 (for domestic flights) to ₹2 (for international flights).
     • CV DEL->BOM return economy = 10000CV points and is usually 8000Rs (CV = Rs0.8)
     • CV DEL->BLR return economy = 15000CV and is usually 11000-12000Rs (CV= Rs0.75)
     • CV Del -> LON return economy = 60000CV and is usually 1-1.5L (CV = 1.6 - 2.5)
   • Assuming a 10:1 ratio of domestic to international usage over the long term => Value for CV points = ₹0.9

Assuming my ER redemptions are 70% flights and 30% hotels = 0.8*(70%*0.9+30%*0.65) = 0.66

4. Amex Membership Rewards ("AMR") = 1AMR = ₹0.55

AMRs are similar to ERs in that the best redemptions also seem to be flight and hotel partners. Infact, in this case best to get MBs only since flight redemptions are only at 50% of AMRs

So essentially 1AMR = 1MB

But due to lack of many choices and that all your travel cannot always be with marriott hotels in mind, we should apply a subjective discount to the value (say 15%).
So Value of 1AMR = 0.85MB = 0.55 (which is close to what you can get with 24k rewards in terms of Taj vouchers also)

So to summarise

1 HDFC RP ("HRP") = ₹1
1 SC 360 Rewards 360 ("SRP") = ₹1
1 Axis Edge Reward ("ER") = ₹0.66
1 Amex Membership reward ("ER") = ₹0.55

In subsequent posts, we can analyse the best reward structure for different spends (Rent, insurance, Fuel, utilities, Amazon shopping etc etc).

HDFC allows only 70% payment through points. So ideally it’s 1RP = 0.70 p.
So, the actual reward rate for HDFC is lower than what is calculated above.

 

[CC_Fire]

HDFC allows only 70% payment through points. So ideally it’s 1RP = 0.70 p.
So, the actual reward rate for HDFC is lower than what is calculated above.

But the value you get for the RPs are Rs1 so doesnt matter if only 70% payable by points. You use lesser points for the same booking. Technically on the other 30%, you make 5x points

 

[CC_Fire]

StanC usually will come around 2.7% reward rate (redemption fee, voucher discount value etc. = 0.6% loss).

Dont disagree, it will depend on the redemption amount. Redeeming a 1000 Rs voucher would lose you 11.8% of the value while redeeming 10,000 voucher would lose only 1.18% of the voucher value. Your 20% discount seems a bit steep but is valid at around Rs500 redemption

 

[Wealth is my birth right!]

Post ultimate devaluation earning rewards in SC is going to be tough whereas magnus milestones easy to achieve as long as it exists

StanC usually will come around 2.7% reward rate (redemption fee, voucher discount value etc. = 0.6% loss).

 

[CC_Fire]

Yepp, Magnus is the clear king of cards at the moment. nothing even close if you can hit the 1L milestone 5-6x a year

 

[Amol2023]

SC Ultimate CC removed Bigbasket voucher from 360 rewards confirmed by SC customer care. I feel good redemption in Croma voucher or Jewellery .

 

[Wealth is my birth right!]

Yepp, Magnus is the clear king of cards at the moment. nothing even close if you can hit the 1L milestone 5-6x a year

Yes with milestone benefits magnus is baap

 

[helloworld]

Dont disagree, it will depend on the redemption amount. Redeeming a 1000 Rs voucher would lose you 11.8% of the value while redeeming 10,000 voucher would lose only 1.18% of the voucher value. Your 20% discount seems a bit steep but is valid at around Rs500 redemption

I spent 4,50,000 using 'ultimate' and got 15,000 reward points at 3.33%.

I hope this is a decent redemption amount.

Now, purchased croma voucher worth 15,000.

So, Ultimate provided 3.33% reward rate for my purchases.

But what is the actual value I paid for that voucher?

- Annual fee: 900
- Redemption fee: 118

Now, have to find where Croma voucher avaialble (Unless ultimate is only place we get that voucher)

Giftedge provides the same under 5x

Select 10/200 (less price than Ultimate)
Magnus 12/200 (double price than Ultimate)
Amazon 5% (min. I can get more with other cards)

Opportunity cost = Amazon 5%×15000 = 750Rs.

Effective return: 15000 - 750 - 900 - 118 = 2.9%

That is not steep but actual value I got after decent amount and believe applicable to everyone.

(If I take some time to get ultimate discount on that croma voucher it will come down to 2.7% easily).

 

[CC_Fire]

Guess you are taking a specific voucher case and comparing it with the opportunity cost IF you owned another card (Select/Magnus).

That isn't a right way to ascribe a rupee value to the reward since it would then change as per the specific case like what if you use a different voucher and what if you don't own the Axis cards. Also, what if there is some product you want to buy which is cheaper on chroma than amazon. This can open up a host of scenarios

The right way to ascribe value is what you derive if you were to not have any other cards and you were owning ultimate vs spending in cash without any offers. The difference is equal to the rupee value of the reward

P.S: I am not defending SC Ultimate value/card since I am convinced Axis Magnus is better but just to establish the right value so as to be able to better compare.

 

[helloworld]

The right way to describe value is what you derive if you were to not have any other cards and you were owning ultimate vs spending in cash without any offers. The difference is equal to the rupee value of the reward

In that case 1card is also king in its own value.

Comparison is what makes to decide better product, IMO. Otherwise, every card says we're providing never before reward rate.

Discounts is what makes us to purchase using their cards or websites etc.

In above example, all places I purchsed the same 'Croma' voucher.

Shop '360 Portal' quote me - 15,000
Shop 'Amazon' quote me - 14,250 (same 15,000 woth of Croma voucher).

Now, what is the actual value should I consider for that 'Croma' voucher.?

I can give same examples for all vouchers available in 360 portal (any voucher), everything available at min.10% discount elsewhere., so literally we're paying 10% additional fee because we have their reward points.

This is the same reason people not purchasing products in those portals rather looking for vouchers because products usually sold at MRP rate which is kind of wasting money or earned reward points because same available at discount.

Actually people comparing flights booking through Infinia points with Skyscanner or agoda or discounted places prices.

Because at the end of the day, we do not care how many reward points we got, it just how much value we got after converting to cash (here cash means purchasing ticket, hotel, voucher price).

If I have 15,000 infinia points and book tickets whereas my friend book the tickets to same place with discount and offer 12,000.

Isn't it I paid 3,000 extra to the same place or same flight.?

 

[CC_Fire]

I see your point. Its not invalid. Its just that there is no way to analyse the universe of all methods to get a voucher/flight ticket etc. Think we can agree that we are talking 4-5% variance in values. Its hard to imagine finding a flight at a 20% lower cost than smartbuy/traveledge. Atleast I dont have such luck

So if you want to be absolutely precision pointed - you can make a subjective discount to values of these points by 5% or so.


Also, a higher value per point doesn't mean a better reward rate/better card. Magnus ERs are 0.66 while infinia is 1 (atleast as per me). It doesnt mean Infinia is better

All i am trying to establish before we start comparing yields on different spends are that the currency we are comparing against should be standardized

I have no idea of the 1card reward system so have no comments on that. But it is possible to have a reward structure where 1RP = 1Rs but stil be an inferior card!!

Now, what is the actual value should I consider for that 'Chroma' voucher.?

You should consider it as what value you would have to spend without the card vs with the card not what you can get with another card. We are trying to get absolute values and not relative value of points. Eventually, once we have an absolute value its much easier to compare than relative to some card. Also that way, some devaluation in cards allows you to still evaluate loss of relative value easily.

However, this is the way I look at the value of each RP. You may look at differently but in your example the value of chrome voucher will also depend on what you are exactly buying. What if the end product is more expensive on amazon!! You can have 100s of cases. The idea is to have a "broad sense" of what the value is.

I can give same examples for all vouchers available in 360 portal (any voucher), everything available at min.10% discount elsewhere., so literally we're paying 10% additional fee because we have their reward points.

If a myntra voucher for 15k in 360 can be had for 13.5k WITHOUT any other card then you are right. But that is not the case. There used to be UBER also which i cannot seem to find now but was another case in point where value is close to 1.