PMS service experience

[CC-Muncher]

Anyone has any experience with PMS services who manage the equity portfolio?

If so what is the yearly return so far, minimum capital reuired and charges?

 

[pothi]

There is no Berkshire Hathaway in India, yet. If you find the right brokers, you can invest directly in US markets. Put most of the money in index funds. If you still have some money left, then look for a PMS. Don't put all your money on a PMS by looking at its past performance. Do not trust any PMS in India, irrespective of its past performance. People rarely talk openly about losing their money.

Bonds (and gold) are attractive at the moment. You can get gov bonds directly from RBI, if you want to be safe. For other bonds, get in touch with your DP (stock broker).

Learn stock market. Slowly. Learn macro trends. You can beat all PMS in a few years. All PMS in India have failed at some point. What you see may not be the actual full data. Transparency is a long way to go in India.

Do not trust anyone (including this post) to manage your finance. Good luck.

 

[Shin-Chan]

My 2 cents :


Getting a great PMS is not easy as there are lot of great areas and half or mis information can easily be shared with potential client as the commision is free money and who doesn't like free money?

Also we often believe on things which are too good to be true or at times do not dig deep enough out of Greed.

Better is to compare the performance of PMS vs Index in bear, bull and sideways market then decide also consider their charges and post tax returns often they are below index funds.
Start with investing in Index and Flexi funds or get a PMS which is giving you atleast 25% delta over Index post tax and charges over last 3, 5 and 10 years.


p.s: There are lot of fake PMS out there without all required documents be aware.



Sadhan Rahe, Satark Rahe !!

 

[Deleted member 11974]

equirius
marcellus
are reputed pms managed by veterans
have fared well in the past year as well

i guess minimum ticket would be 50L to 1 cr

 

[Deleted member 11974]

or for a peace of mind just do mirroring by copying top performing mutual funds
in the long run you will end up with 18-20% xirr as you dont pay any expense ratio

 

[nomad]

or for a peace of mind just do mirroring by copying top performing mutual funds
in the long run you will end up with 18-20% xirr as you dont pay any expense ratio

How will he copy the MFs? By checking again and again for the changes happening?

Wouldn't he be better off with just going with the MF directly and paying the expense ratio? The rationale being that if he individually manages the portfolio, then he will have to keep on rebalancing it, ergo the same thing as smallcase.
He can also look at Smallcases as some PMS companies are running their strategies there itself.

 

[phildunphy]

There is no Berkshire Hathaway in India, yet. If you find the right brokers, you can invest directly in US markets. Put most of the money in index funds. If you still have some money left, then look for a PMS. Don't put all your money on a PMS by looking at its past performance. Do not trust any PMS in India, irrespective of its past performance. People rarely talk openly about losing their money.

Bonds (and gold) are attractive at the moment. You can get gov bonds directly from RBI, if you want to be safe. For other bonds, get in touch with your DP (stock broker).

Learn stock market. Slowly. Learn macro trends. You can beat all PMS in a few years. All PMS in India have failed at some point. What you see may not be the actual full data. Transparency is a long way to go in India.

Do not trust anyone (including this post) to manage your finance. Good luck.

This is a false and very generalised statement, like saying all CAs are frauds and behind taking money for filing tax. There are reputable PMS like unifi , marcellus.

@OP do your due diligence, PMS have min investment of 50L and they have subscription windows where they accept money. You can see their past performances and take a call.
PMS is a perfect choice if you don't have time to manage your money and want equity exposure. There are few others who do diversification too.

 

[Deleted member 9785]

Top PMS funds see outflows amid poor showing

Top 20 PMS funds see outflows of Rs 3,400 cr in FY21; Marcellus Investment Advisors worst performer with -14% alpha. Outflows led by ASK Investment Managers, Quantum Advisors, IIFL Wealth Portfolio Managers. Funds invest on behalf of wealthy individuals, min. Rs 50 lakh. MFs may benefit from PMS...

www.thehindubusinessline.com

avoid avoid avoid

 

[nomad]

Top PMS funds see outflows amid poor showing

Top 20 PMS funds see outflows of Rs 3,400 cr in FY21; Marcellus Investment Advisors worst performer with -14% alpha. Outflows led by ASK Investment Managers, Quantum Advisors, IIFL Wealth Portfolio Managers. Funds invest on behalf of wealthy individuals, min. Rs 50 lakh. MFs may benefit from PMS...

www.thehindubusinessline.com

avoid avoid avoid

The same link has a table where some PMS are also shown to have generated good alpha

Last year, even the best MFs were underperforming. That doesn't mean that people should not participate.
Historic returns are not an indication of future and market returns come from long term market participation.

Also, India is a trader driven market where people in general are not ready to invest and sit and let the performance roll out

 

[Deleted member 11974]

How will he copy the MFs? By checking again and again for the changes happening?

Wouldn't he be better off with just going with the MF directly and paying the expense ratio? The rationale being that if he individually manages the portfolio, then he will have to keep on rebalancing it, ergo the same thing as smallcase.
He can also look at Smallcases as some PMS companies are running their strategies there itself.

well that's why i said if he intends to invest in the long run

blindly mirror the holdings and keep rebalancing on a quarterly or a semi-annually basis

 

[CC-Muncher]

50 lakh ticket size is a lot for me.
I am looking for something smaller around 15lakh.

Have heard about marcellus but also saw the recent performance to be not good at all.

 

[nomad]

50 lakh ticket size is a lot for me.
I am looking for something smaller around 15lakh.

Have heard about marcellus but also saw the recent performance to be not good at all.

Best way would be to spread it out and invest in Index Funds
Next best if you want to chase alpha will be to look at good MFs or Smallcases
Direct investment should come last when you have the knowledge to traverse the markets

 

[Deleted member 11974]

50 lakh ticket size is a lot for me.
I am looking for something smaller around 15lakh.

Have heard about marcellus but also saw the recent performance to be not good at all.

i dont think any pms takes up clients at 15
even icici sec requires 25 L

i would suggest learn a bit and start direct investing via bluechips or stick to index funds or mutual funds or mutual fund mirroring

 

[CC-Muncher]

i dont think any pms takes up clients at 15
even icici sec requires 25 L

i would suggest learn a bit and start direct investing via bluechips or stick to index funds or mutual funds or mutual fund mirroring

Well i am doing it on my own for last 10years but not getting much time lately and thats why exploring options if any

 

[Deleted member 11974]

Well i am doing it on my own for last 10years but not getting much time lately and thats why exploring options if any

then the best options are
index funds
mutual funds mirroring
mutual funds

 

[iamdhamo]

What about Ithought for PMS

 

[Deleted member 11974]

check their returns published on their websites
and read a bit about the fund managers idealogies

 

[Raun]

For smaller ticket size, you can try smallcase investing. Smallcase has some good fund managers with good alpha returns.

 

[george99]

This is a false and very generalised statement, like saying all CAs are frauds and behind taking money for filing tax. There are reputable PMS like unifi , marcellus.

@OP do your due diligence, PMS have min investment of 50L and they have subscription windows where they accept money. You can see their past performances and take a call.
PMS is a perfect choice if you don't have time to manage your money and want equity exposure. There are few others who do diversification too.

Checked Marcellus PMS return and it looks really bad compared to index fund.Also they show you the numbers based on the first person who joined PMS.So if you join in late your return might not match with what PMS is showing.In Mutualfund there is NAV so it helps easy to get the return value.

 

[george99]

For smaller ticket size, you can try smallcase investing. Smallcase has some good fund managers with good alpha returns.

i have heard that for Smallcase you need to have more than 5-10L corpus then only you get good returns deducting the fees.I don't know personally but i have read it somewhere.